Pro 575 Not Achieving Temperatures

[KirkP]

It's really too bad that unlike some other brands, Traeger doesn't provide any way to calibrate the barrel thermocouple.

 

[MaD HuNGaRIaN]

It's really too bad that unlike some other brands, Traeger doesn't provide any way to calibrate the barrel thermocouple.

EXACTLY! I even asked CS and they said no way to do it! Maybe there is and it's just not exposed in firmware (yet)?

 

[MaD HuNGaRIaN]

Welcome to the forum @MaD HuNGaRIaN - What firmware version are you running?

v01.01.04 I realize there's allegedly a 05, but I've watched mine update when I first powered on, and it went to the 04 and now says "latest", so who knows what's up with 05....

 

[LoaBanz]

It's really too bad that unlike some other brands, Traeger doesn't provide any way to calibrate the barrel thermocouple.

aww darn, I was kind of hoping to be able to calibrate it myself. Seems like they are trying to do it via firmware. I calibrated the meat probe (which was wildly off) and now it is only off by 4 degrees from my thermapen

 

[LoaBanz]

Well, it came out okay. The smoke flavor was pretty mild. Reverse "sear" started out at 225 Deg till internal temp was 120Deg. then cranked up as far as the Pro 575 would go, which is 450 Deg. Returned steaks to grill at 447 (never gt to 450) hoping to get those grill marks and achieve the Maillard reaction. It almost got there but fell a bit short. Now, was the steak good? Heck yea! but as I have said before I am learning how to use a pellet smoker/grill and hope my technique improves.

 

[KirkP]

EXACTLY! I even asked CS and they said no way to do it! Maybe there is and it's just not exposed in firmware (yet)?

Crazy, all you need to do is be able to apply an offset, presumably at a mid-range temperature. I really didn't want to name drop, but my RecTec makes this super easy.

 

[Beaser]

Howdy, just wondering if you finally ended up getting your Ironwood? If so, did you encounter the problems? I bought the Pro 575 and on my first cook, I noticed there was a slight discrepancy (10-15 degrees) between the Trager internal thermometer and the ThermaQ I use for other applications (ThermaQ is certified calibrated so I know it is spot on). The provided extra probe was wildly off more than 100 Degrees. I will have to recalibrate that extra probe, but not sure if there is a way to calibrate the ambient probe. Your thoughts and experience?

I worked in refrigeration for 47 years and carried some very expensive test equipment. I always checked for accuracy on an ongoing basis, It can take a few tries to get your meat probe to calibrate. You need to fill a glass full of small cubes or cracked ice. Add just enough water to fill the gaps and make it fluid. set it up and stir quickly for a minute or more then press calibrate. practice with your therma Q. The Traeger meat probe is most likely a type K thermocouple . These aren't instant read and they have a large mass so be patient.
When you do get a good calibration, test the probe in boiling water. If you have an electric kettle bring the water to a rolling boil switch the kettle off and immerse the probe. Water boils at 212 deg F or 100 deg C unless you live in Flagstaff Az. Be careful not to immerse the top of the stainless tube, all probes of this type are not water tight. They can collect moisture during the cook . The probe is in meat that's quite a bit cooler than the grill inside temp temperature, water vapour will condense and your junction may ground out giving you erratic temps. All you need to do is keep the probe/probes in a zip lock with a cup of uncooked rice.

So far as using the offset on the probe setup, that won't work. By going through the ice bath you are showing the controller what type of thermocouple probe you have. The controller will match the voltage output of the thermocouple with the correct temperature range. (if heat is applied to the junction of two dissimilar metals an EMF is produced) Different types of thermocouples will have different temp values associated their voltage (millivolt) output

The long explaination is for people that want to understand why all this BS. For any given type of thermocouple there is a definite millivolt output for each type. ie a type K @ 212 deg F is 4.096 mv, a type J is 5.269 mv. They could have set it up for type K and be done with it
I get carried away sometimes

 

[cooker_fox]

v01.01.04 I realize there's allegedly a 05, but I've watched mine update when I first powered on, and it went to the 04 and now says "latest", so who knows what's up with 05....

How to you check the version and how do you update it? I have the Pro 575.

 

[CampWhatnot]

You can see the current version in the app or in the controller. In terms of updates, they push them to you when they feel like it. You cannot update it yourself.

 

[KirkP]

I worked in refrigeration for 47 years and carried some very expensive test equipment. I always checked for accuracy on an ongoing basis, It can take a few tries to get your meat probe to calibrate. You need to fill a glass full of small cubes or cracked ice. Add just enough water to fill the gaps and make it fluid. set it up and stir quickly for a minute or more then press calibrate. practice with your therma Q. The Traeger meat probe is most likely a type K thermocouple . These aren't instant read and they have a large mass so be patient.
When you do get a good calibration, test the probe in boiling water. If you have an electric kettle bring the water to a rolling boil switch the kettle off and immerse the probe. Water boils at 212 deg F or 100 deg C unless you live in Flagstaff Az. Be careful not to immerse the top of the stainless tube, all probes of this type are not water tight. They can collect moisture during the cook . The probe is in meat that's quite a bit cooler than the grill inside temp temperature, water vapour will condense and your junction may ground out giving you erratic temps. All you need to do is keep the probe/probes in a zip lock with a cup of uncooked rice.

So far as using the offset on the probe setup, that won't work. By going through the ice bath you are showing the controller what type of thermocouple probe you have. The controller will match the voltage output of the thermocouple with the correct temperature range. (if heat is applied to the junction of two dissimilar metals an EMF is produced) Different types of thermocouples will have different temp values associated their voltage (millivolt) output

The long explaination is for people that want to understand why all this BS. For any given type of thermocouple there is a definite millivolt output for each type. ie a type K @ 212 deg F is 4.096 mv, a type J is 5.269 mv. They could have set it up for type K and be done with it
I get carried away sometimes

It's also true that every thermocouple will have its own calibration curve. If the calibration curve stored on the controller doesn't match well with the one associated with the thermocouple it ships with, then things will be slightly off. An offset is not a perfect solution but it is the same principle as the ice water bath calibration (except you can apply the offset from a temp closer to where you actually cook if you have an accurate reference thermometer).

 

[Beaser]

It's also true that every thermocouple will have its own calibration curve. If the calibration curve stored on the controller doesn't match well with the one associated with the thermocouple it ships with, then things will be slightly off. An offset is not a perfect solution but it is the same principle as the ice water bath calibration (except you can apply the offset from a temp closer to where you actually cook if you have an accurate reference thermometer).

I've always found the type K thermocouple to be fairly accurate (+/- 1 or 2 deg) the issue that plagues the inexpensive capsules is the water condensing in the steel capsule and the readings go haywire. So far as using a "guaranteed accurate" thermometer, I always check them using boiling water,
The reason for the ice bath and water boiling is the conditions for change of state are written in stone @ atmospheric pressure sea level. There is a diiference in the boiling point at extreme elevations but that is well documented.

 

[KirkP]

The ice water calibration seems to be a crude way of setting up the type of thermocouple in the controller firmware. In better quality controllers the type J or K probe would be set in a drop down menu. I was able to get my probe to 33 deg F with the ice bath setup. I still checked it with water boiling and I prove my thermapen with boiling water occasionally and use it as a reference with some confidence. For the barrel temperature I use a Omega HH22 recording thermometer, I also check that against boiling water. Old habits die hard.
I think the greatest problem with the ice bath is the patience required. As I wrote before, the inexpensive probe capsules wind up with water condensing in the steel capsule. The best fix for that is putting them in a ziplock with uncooked rice between use.

Admittedly I've been assuming these controllers and thermocouples operate more or less the same between different manufacturers. On my new RecTec (yep, used to be a Traeger owner until the Pro series made me jump ship), the calibration of the probes are done by inputting a degree offset (+/- 15 deg), while the barrel thermocouple is calibrated by an offset percentage (+/- 25%). This implies to me that both are manipulating the calibration curves and are not just selecting different thermocouple types. But of course Traeger could be doing things completely different.

 

[Beaser]

I think the're doing things the cheapest way possible. What you're talking about is the way things should be done. I was surprised to see omega components in Traegers controller. I'm retired I should be having fun not obsessing about sh$t

 

[KirkP]

I think the're doing things the cheapest way possible. What you're talking about is the way things should be done. I was surprised to see omega components in Traegers controller.

I have no doubts that you are correct.

 

[Cheetor]

Hi All.
New Traeger owner here. Just bought my grill a few days back.. and guess what, it was an absolute expletive to get working well at low temps.... I'm an automation engineer so naturally I got dug in to what was actually happening. Control theory is the bread and butter of my day job especially things like PID control loops (

). (old firmware version) Knowing this I discovered a few things... First of it was a bright sunny summer day, my grill was hitting 130 from just the sun alone.... So I thought a bit about what might be happening. WIth the sun adding a lot of energy to the grill what was happening is the grill requires only a tiny amount of pellets to lift the temp from 130 to 160.. so the grill would add pellets VERY VERY slowly. As the pellets burnt and got lighter they got blown into seperate individual pellets in the firepot. This caused them to go out... the temp kept going down so the grill started adding extra pellets faster and faster. until you have a LOT of pellets in the firepot, but because the few burning pellets had cooled down a lot they didn't start right away. instead the temp kept dropping, and the grill keeps adding pellets, about 3 or 4 minutes later the pellets would finally catch fire again... when the large number of pellets caught fire the grill temp would shoot right up again to about 350ish and the unit would panic and shutdown. I solved this with a little trick. I placed one large size charcoal bricquette in the flame pot directly opposite the augur. The charcoal briquette alone doesn't produce much heat. BUT what it does do is ensure as pellets are added they start burning right away. After that the grill held 160 perfectly without any issues.

I upgraded the firmware today (Had to install a second access point so the grill had WiFi access)... right off the bat the temperature control was vastly improved. but I'm still using the one lump of charcoal trick. As testing continues I'll keep people updated here. At some point I intend to tear down the controller and see how it's set up, chances are it's based on one of the common off the shelf WiFi enabled micro-controllers like the ESP32 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESP32 . from a hardware perspective the grill is good, It's the firmware that's a bit iffy, Most likley the tuning of the PID loop. I also suspect at low tempratures the grill should probably re-enable the igniter to stop the situation of too many unlit pellets.

I've seen a lot of people use the word Thermocouple. Just to clarify the Traeger does not use a thermocouple. Thermocouples are pretty inaccurate and tend to drift a lot. The grill uses whats called a PT100 RTD (a platnum resistance temperature detector). RTD's are very accurate and have almost no drift. but they rely on a very well calibrated whetstone bridge https://instrumentationtools.com/rtd-wheatstone-bridge-circuits/ . I suspect there may be some problems during the testing of the PCBs in the factory the bridge may not be calibrated well.... I wonder if Traeger is internally implementing a good lean kaizen process, I suspect they may not be doing their DMAIC well (or at all, or even know what DMAIC is)..

I'll keep y'all posted as my investigation continues.