Ambient Temp

[Steven Sedlmayr]

Okay, here are the beginning of the mods. Fire bricks on the inside. I am not done obviously, but it is a start. I did fire it up as it, and the flame leaped up as high as the grill itself. I closed the lid and in about 10 minutes it was about 500 degrees, so I turned it off. There was hardly any ash. I could touch the brick inside and they were probably about 95 degrees. The outside was dead cold except for the lid which I could not touch. After the mods I will be able to put my hand on it.


So I will put a layer of stainless steel over this. The stainless will act like an infrared heater also. And the heater deflector will be stainless, but have a slightly different design than theirs. Also, the drip plate will have indents and holes in it, with covers for the holes that I can remove so that I can also grill on the grate above. I expect to reach about 700 to 800 degrees inside. And an area to grill on with direct access to the heat of the fire pot below trough the drip plate and the heat deflector.

I will also have to modify the cover with an insulator inside and a stainless steel shell inside also.

If I were designing from the beginning, I would have a pellet chute that did not touch the fire pot but dropped pellets into it. It would also have a sliding lid so that the ash would dump out the bottom into a drawer that I could remove and dump.
And have dual feeds and dual fire pots on each side. With the middle section being the cooler section so that I can slow cook on any of the sides, but when grilling, move the meat to the cooler middle for storage. That way I could get three cooking areas out of it, with three independent temps.

I think I will have all the mods done in about three weeks. Then it should be good for a very long time and last longer than what they designed it for in years. I expect to get over 15 years or more out of it, however being 71, it might very well outlast me. And now I can use it in the dead of winter at the coldest temps.

I will keep posting the mods as I go on. I would expect that there is probably a wifi contoller that I can replace by a third party controller within a short period of time.

I am taking it slow and only working on weekends on it right now.

 

[Steven Sedlmayr]

Okay, will post more pictures, But on startup, the smoke was insane at 80F. And it held it there for about 5 minutes when I decided I wanted to up the temp. So I put it at max and the thing rose in temps at over 1 degree per second. I had the heat deflector plate on with the mod, but only my fire bricks inside. I am trying to burn them out. However, the new location for the probe indicated that it goes to over 585 degrees within 1.5 minutes. Insane. And the smoke at low temp was insane. The only part that got hot was lid. I am going to put insulation on lid of it then build another stainless steel cover for the top that goes over it. So it will be double insulated. I expect to be able to use this at 0 degrees outside and get it to over 500F easily.

So I am next putting a ceramic coating on top of the fire bricks, then the stainless steel shell for inside. Then I will change the drip plate so that it works both as a flame router and drip plate, and be able to have a direct flame on the grill portions.

I will also build a better hopper that holds three times as much pellets and be able to gravity feed better.

This will be like no other grill, smoker. And I expect that it would last for a very very long time.

Thanks, Traeger for a shell to build into a real smoker, and thanks for the pellet feed. Other than that, I had the same complaints that everyone else had. Not enough smoke, not enough heat, could not use during the wintertime. Now that is all changed do to some engineering.

 

[Steven Sedlmayr]

Here is where I tested it out. Look at the smoke at 80F.

So far I probably have about $300 worth of materials into it, and about 6 hours. I expect the stainless steel I need to cost about $500.
That will be about $800 that I put into it. My other options were to buy a smaller stainless steel double air insulated one at $5000, or one that would do what this will at $9000. And my hopper with hold 3 times what their's does, burn at least at half of what their's does (probably about 1/8 of what Traeger does). And boy can I cold smoke now, where I could never do that before on a Traeger.

 

[magoo40]

What mod do you believe has improved the smoke?

 

[RemE]

Amazing project Steven! I was thinking, if the grill does in fact get well over 500F it may destroy the Traeger's temp sensor. A lot of the thermistor type sensor probes are only good to about 550F before they fail. I love the idea of an efficient, well insulated grill.

Edit, I found that my stock Timberline actually uses a K Type thermocouple, so no problem with high temps.

 

[Steven Sedlmayr]

Just did another test simulating the stainless steel.. Guess what, I can get to over 650 now, but could never get over 300 before. And I simulated double insulated hood and I can now put my hand on this. It took less than 2 minutes to get to 650. Way longer to come down. And talk about not using any pellets...It just sits there and hardly uses any pellets or the fan. At 200 F and 250 F it stays within plus or minus 3 degrees now.

Here is latest pics..

What mod do you believe has improved the smoke?

I account the increased smoke for a couple of reasons:

I changed out the Traeger controller to a third party. And the thermistor. It has a smoke setting that works well.
Next, the insulation holds the temp much better than before, and the controller is a PID so that when I set it to smoke it goes to a nice temp and the pellets smoke very well at that temp.
The new location of the temp probe is much more consistent with the real temp in the smoker, being at the level of the grate, or slightly above it. And the modification I made to the heat deflector moves the smoke much more efficiently.
The holes in the drip late help get smoke right to the grill without a great deal of heat.

And finally, the blower works better. I do not know why, but it seems stronger, maybe because of the insulation around the burn box. And with it blowing more efficiently, the smoke really swirls around and circulates very well.

I am going to patent something I came up with (a couple of somethings) that will make the smoke more efficient and usable throughout the entire temp range. From smoke to even at 650 degrees F.

And now that my Traeger mod can hold plus-minus 3 degrees very easy I look forward to some really great slow-smoked cooked meats and even bread. I have been doing pizzas on my moded egg cooker and they are fabulously smoked, just like a real pizza oven. Now I can also do this on my Traeger

 

[Pits_N_Pellets]

Was just wondering if anyone has a similar issue. It seems my grill displays 220 degrees but my Meater Thermometer ambient temp is showing 190 degrees when I cook. Thats like a 30 degree difference. Meater claims they are accurate to with in +/-1 degree. I have the Ironwood 885 Grill.

There probably is about a 30f difference from where the temp probe is to the surrounding air around your meat. Remember heat rises so that’ll be the hottest part of your grill. NO grill has the same temp throughout, some are just better at being more even.

 

[TanyaTraeger]

I have the same problem. I have a SMOKE monitoring system and it is much different also. I have the smoked probe directly next to the Treager probe. I don't know how to check the built in probe in ice water. I have over cooked ribs and undercooked pork shoulder. I’m doing a brisket this week and don’t know which to follow. I have checked the meat probes and they are different also. What really is frustrating is that my instant read is even different than the Probes. Love the grill but tired of ruining meat!

Was just wondering if anyone has a similar issue. It seems my grill displays 220 degrees but my Meater Thermometer ambient temp is showing 190 degrees when I cook. Thats like a 30 degree difference. Meater claims they are accurate to with in +/-1 degree. I have the Ironwood 885 Grill.

 

[Steven Sedlmayr]

That was one of my problems also. So I removed the probe and repositioned it so that it is above the grate by a couple of inches, parallel to it.
Where it was before was useless and I had to guess what the temp difference was. So I purchased an Inkbird wifi 4 probe and used it at the grating site. Then I used that to set the temp and ignored what the controller told me. Now I go by the controller.

And with the mods that I made, the temp is now not just at the top, but is pretty even within 10 degrees everywhere! Why, because of my insulation and the heat does not now pass into the steel and then that area's heat is determined by the heat transfer function of the inside and outside and breezes. There is no heat transfer (very little). The most heat transfer right now is through the top, but when I simulated the double stainless steel insulation along with the insulating mat, it stopped. My probes now show a consistent heat profile throughout the entire cabin, so now I know what I am cooking at. And I can control that temp easily. A buy product of moving the probe also shows that when I open the cabinet, the temp varies very little and recovers almost instantly with only a few degree drop. Before it would show almost a 50 to 100-degree temp difference, and then the controller would kick on, and then it would get too hot, then drop, then heat..etc.

Now it does not do that.

Sorry, but the way they are designed ( I am not knocking the design, but I am a perfectionist, scientist, physicist, and engineer) that is always going to happen. I just thought there was a better way to avoid this. And with just little engineering principles fixed the problems.

But yes, normally the temp is highest, but why put the resting shelf at the highest point with the highest temps? Actually because of the heat loss in their steel that is not true for all models. And it also depends upon how they distribute heat throughout the cabinet. I have a design that does that evenly throughout the entire cabinet. Also, my stainless steel acts as an infrared heater. And stainless steel does not transfer heat readily (try welding it, it is a b..h).

But once heated, is very even through the entire structure if left alone for some time in an insulated heated cabinet. That is how they temper it and fix the welds. In fact, it is better to preheat stainless before welding it, and then heat it after so that it does not warp as bad. And it works wonders as an infrared heater.

And my new invention will make the smoke useful throughout the entire temp range no matter what temp. I will disclose it after I have filed the necessary patents and then I will also file a patent on the other system that evens the heat throughout the entire camber and keeps the lid cool.

By the way, if you just put heating bricks or such throughout the chamber it does help keep the heat more evenly.

And do not think the temp at the grating is the same as what the controller is. That is why the other brands have switched to having a moveable probe that clamps to the grating to indicate the air temp at the grating. The Traegers use one that sticks up at the back (at least mine does and the others that I have seen) next to a high heat sink that is transferring the heat to the outside and is out of the path of the real heat of the grating. My probes always showed at least a 50 F temp difference, and maybe even up to a 100 F sometimes. That is why I always cook to the temp of the meat with a probe. Now I can use the probes to show the rate of heating, is what I really want to know also. A good slow cook is better so that the meats are then evenly heated from outside to inside. That is why sous vide is so good but takes longer periods of time.

I still sous vide plenty of meat to 132 F to kill the bacteria and break down the fats and ligaments, put it on the grill nice and slow to the 165 temps for a stall, wrap it, bring it to 195, then grill it for the crust. It just melts in your mouth.

I did this with a prime rib (not the higher temps) and it cut with a fork and was the most delightful I ever had anywhere in the world. Now I cannot buy prime rib in a restaurant because it does not even come close. It was like eating butter in my mouth and actually almost dissolved like it. The fat on it was like eating candy. It was cooked to medium-rare and did not have the chewing problem of rare. It was not "gummy", chewy or slimy like I have had before. And the fat really tasted just like candy. Everybody at the table ate every bit of fat they could get their hands on. It dissolved in your mouth and actually had a somewhat sweet taste to it.

But I am a perfectionist and just good is not good enough for me. It must be the ultimate, so that is why I set out to build my ultimate grill/smoker built on the bones of a Traeger.

1) Must have even temps throughout
2) must indicate real temp at grating site
3) must use very little wood pellets
4) must be able to maintain a great smoke profile throughout the cooking and make sure the smoke flavor is not dependent upon the type of pellet used
5) Very little attention to the cooking
6) Not be dangerous to people to touch the grill and get burnt (I have a granddaughter I do not want to be hurt by touching any surface of the grill)
7) must cook from very low temp to high temp
8) must be able to use in hot weather or cool weather, it does not matter
9) Wind, rain or snow does not affect the inside cook temp.
10) easy to change from low and slow cooking to high temp griller
11) Set temp and forget about it.
12) Costs less than a small car
13) Easy to empty the ash tray without taking the smoker apart
14) gives the tastes of any type of wood or charcoal if desired.

 

[Steven Sedlmayr]

I have the same problem. I have a SMOKE monitoring system and it is much different also. I have the smoked probe directly next to the Treager probe. I don't know how to check the built in probe in ice water. I have over cooked ribs and undercooked pork shoulder. I’m doing a brisket this week and don’t know which to follow. I have checked the meat probes and they are different also. What really is frustrating is that my instant read is even different than the Probes. Love the grill but tired of ruining meat!

Tanya:

I recommend getting a wifi Inkbird temp monitor. Then I would use one to clip to the grating and set my Traeger to that. Not to the Traeger probe. Set the grating probe to about 235 to 275 depending upon what you are grilling. 235 is slower, 275 is faster.

Then put the meat probe in the meat and if doing beef, look for the stall around 160 to 170. When you hit the stall, wrap the beef in the tin foil and wait to it hits around 190 and unwrap and then finish. Of course, this is for fall-apart juicy whatever. If you like your beef stringy and harder to chew, then just cook to the temp that the FDA recommends for killing bacteria.

This is the basis for the 3-2-1 cooking for ribs, but if your grill is not consistent and does not really show the right temps at the grating, then the cooking times change. That is why some people say the 3-2-1 method works, others say that it sucks and that their ribs are undercooked or overcooked. When cooked to the right temps, then that does not occur.

And then there are the enzymes that you want your meat to stay in the temp range for a period of time to break down the proteins and denature them correctly.

See this page for details: https://buythermopro.com/knowledge/what-temperatures-cook-tender-meat/

The doneness is thrown out with smoking and slow cooking as I have had meat cooked to 205 degrees that were as soft, tasteful, and juicy as butter melting in your mouth. Try cooking a steak fast to 205 and it is usually pretty tough and burnt.

And slow cooking helps kill bacteria (actually the smoke helps. This is why our forefathers smoked most of their meats in a smoke house without over cooking them. They would last for months after smoking at room temp).

And salt your meats and pepper them at least on hour for grilling, and if you can, just do it overnight and store in refrigerator.

Just using these suggestions will make you a master grilled and people will ooh and ahh your cooking. And a little bit of pineapple enzyme (bromelain) goes a long way, Be careful with this though, it can turn your meat into a mush like an apple puree.

 

[Steven Sedlmayr]

And to put my actions where my mouth is, here is pic of my burn pot after two and 1/2 hours of burning in, from smoking to 650 degrees for about 1/2 hour, to cool down and shut down.

It is burning way less than 1/6 of what it did before. And I should be able to get about 5 or 6 cooks before I have to clean pot, but I do it every time.

But imagine a bag of pallets lasting three days (But I must stir them because of the Traeger design, all the pellets do not fall into the hopper. It just forms a hole around the hopper and I must stir the pellets to even them out again.

And oh, the next thing I do on my build is to now coat all of the bricks with a ceramic coating. My bricks are good to about 2800 F, and the ceramic to about 2400 F. After the coating, I then put on the stainless steel for the inside. I will keep posting pics along the way.

This is a super Sedlmayr-Traeger grill, one of a kind for those that want the ultimate perfection. Gosh, would I like to have a design from the start that was the ultimate smoker grill in the world?

 

[Corners]

So maybe I don’t understand your question as I don’t believe you’re referring to the outside air temp but I’ll try to answer what I think you’re asking.
Internal temp on the traeger probe can be different than another thermometer. While your meater probe claims X have you verified it’s accuracy? I don’t say that as Traeger’s is but if you’re going to compare two you need to know which is right. That said you can calibrate the traegers through the menu on the grill with an ice bath that might get it a little more accurate.
Hope this helps

“Menu on the grill . . . . .
well that would be nice - HOWEVER, ANYTHING showing in MY grill doesn’t mean anything. I’m on my SECOND Timberline 850
In two months. The Treager app is hung up or so says Treager. I’ve ruined 8 steaks due to not having the latest app. $1,800 down the crapper because Treager can’t help me.

 

[Corners]

I have a Traeger classic which I purchased from Costco years ago. I had problems trying to keep temp and even getting it up to temp. So I changed controller and that helped, but it still wanders, and outside temp does not help. It is single sheet metal. So I looked at other grills and started incorporating their features into this one.
First, I drilled holes in the heat deflector and it helped tremendously. The temp would get hotter and stay more even. But I noticed that the temp sensor is not really in a prime location. So I put one onto the grill and noticed a 50-degree difference between where I was cooking and where their sensor is. Thus I turned the controller up to compensate for this and put the temp where I was cooking at the exact temperature. Boy did that help.

So now I am moving their sensor to be portable and attach to the grill where the food is cooked. Next, I am lining it with insulating lightweight refractory brick, like in the brick ovens. Over that, I will put a ceramic coating, and then a stainless steel inner shell. Thus I will have a totally insulated inner cooking chamber. On the swing top, I am putting some insulation with a stainless steel inner shell also.

Then I am making a stainless steel deflector plate for the firepot with placed holes. The fat collector plate is going to be made into three pieces, with the middle one replaceable. the outer two will have holes in them, but with a cover, that be put over them. Same with the middle, but the cover will be able to be removed. by doing this I can use it to sear also in the middle. The other two parts will act like infrared heaters and give off heat. I have played with this a little and I can get it up to over 500 degrees for searing without any problem.

And finally, I am drilling out the fire pothole and placing a sliding gate of stainless steel over the hole from underneath. Thus I can just pull the gate, dump out the ashes, and get ready for the next grilling without having to disassemble everything.

When I am done I will have a super Traeger like no other grill and have the same features that $8000 grills have. I will be so well insulated that I expect it to use about 1/4 to 1/8 of what it is using now for pellets. With the mods I have already made I noticed I am using much less, probably about 40% less already. And it can now get hotter than it did before.

And then finally, I am going to make an extension for my pellet feeder box. It is small, but by building a nice stainless steel extension I should be able to hold about 3 times the amount of pellets that I do now. I have to decide if I want to make a hole to change the pellets out or not, but I do not really cook with a lot of extra mixtures, I seem to stay with one kind most of the time.

I am hoping that in the dead of winter that I can cook easily, and maybe do to or three-day cooks without having to refill pellets. The outside of the cooker is painted and holding up really good, albeit it is not stainless steel.

But some small changes to their "design" should help most people. Drill holes in that deflector plate (not above the pot, but around the outside, and think about moving their sensor and putting another sensor at where you cook to check the accuracy of their sensor. Do not think you can really hold the temp with their single-wall design in many states because of the outside temp fluctuations. I guess one of their blankets would help. but they never made one for my model.

But with the mods I am making for this one it will be a keeper for many many years, and even maybe a hand me down to my son or daughter.

The nice thing about stainless steel ( I will use 304) is that it does not allow heat to spread very readily and holds onto the heat. It does remit it as infrared heat. So it takes a while to heat up, but acts like this great heat sink and stabilizes the temperature inside. And the firebrick I am using is a very good insulator and also very light, so it does not add very much weight to the grill. The stainless is another story altogether. It does weigh and adds weight to the grill. I only need it thick though for the (12 gauge) for the heat deflector, and thinking about 16 gauge for the sidewalls and bottom, while the fat-grease tray might be 14 gauge.

And when you’re done we will see this gigantic mushroom cloud!!
Why, WHY in the world would any sane individual attempt to do what you are doing.
W-H-Y????

 

[Svan41]

I have a Traeger classic which I purchased from Costco years ago. I had problems trying to keep temp and even getting it up to temp. So I changed controller and that helped, but it still wanders, and outside temp does not help. It is single sheet metal. So I looked at other grills and started incorporating their features into this one.
First, I drilled holes in the heat deflector and it helped tremendously. The temp would get hotter and stay more even. But I noticed that the temp sensor is not really in a prime location. So I put one onto the grill and noticed a 50-degree difference between where I was cooking and where their sensor is. Thus I turned the controller up to compensate for this and put the temp where I was cooking at the exact temperature. Boy did that help.

So now I am moving their sensor to be portable and attach to the grill where the food is cooked. Next, I am lining it with insulating lightweight refractory brick, like in the brick ovens. Over that, I will put a ceramic coating, and then a stainless steel inner shell. Thus I will have a totally insulated inner cooking chamber. On the swing top, I am putting some insulation with a stainless steel inner shell also.

Then I am making a stainless steel deflector plate for the firepot with placed holes. The fat collector plate is going to be made into three pieces, with the middle one replaceable. the outer two will have holes in them, but with a cover, that be put over them. Same with the middle, but the cover will be able to be removed. by doing this I can use it to sear also in the middle. The other two parts will act like infrared heaters and give off heat. I have played with this a little and I can get it up to over 500 degrees for searing without any problem.

And finally, I am drilling out the fire pothole and placing a sliding gate of stainless steel over the hole from underneath. Thus I can just pull the gate, dump out the ashes, and get ready for the next grilling without having to disassemble everything.

When I am done I will have a super Traeger like no other grill and have the same features that $8000 grills have. I will be so well insulated that I expect it to use about 1/4 to 1/8 of what it is using now for pellets. With the mods I have already made I noticed I am using much less, probably about 40% less already. And it can now get hotter than it did before.

And then finally, I am going to make an extension for my pellet feeder box. It is small, but by building a nice stainless steel extension I should be able to hold about 3 times the amount of pellets that I do now. I have to decide if I want to make a hole to change the pellets out or not, but I do not really cook with a lot of extra mixtures, I seem to stay with one kind most of the time.

I am hoping that in the dead of winter that I can cook easily, and maybe do to or three-day cooks without having to refill pellets. The outside of the cooker is painted and holding up really good, albeit it is not stainless steel.

But some small changes to their "design" should help most people. Drill holes in that deflector plate (not above the pot, but around the outside, and think about moving their sensor and putting another sensor at where you cook to check the accuracy of their sensor. Do not think you can really hold the temp with their single-wall design in many states because of the outside temp fluctuations. I guess one of their blankets would help. but they never made one for my model.

But with the mods I am making for this one it will be a keeper for many many years, and even maybe a hand me down to my son or daughter.

The nice thing about stainless steel ( I will use 304) is that it does not allow heat to spread very readily and holds onto the heat. It does remit it as infrared heat. So it takes a while to heat up, but acts like this great heat sink and stabilizes the temperature inside. And the firebrick I am using is a very good insulator and also very light, so it does not add very much weight to the grill. The stainless is another story altogether. It does weigh and adds weight to the grill. I only need it thick though for the (12 gauge) for the heat deflector, and thinking about 16 gauge for the sidewalls and bottom, while the fat-grease tray might be 14 gauge.

I wanna see that baby when it’s done. Lol

 

[Steven Sedlmayr]

The reason I am doing this is it could hardly get to 350 degrees on a warm day. And during the winter it would hover around 250 full out. Now, on a warm day, easily 650 degrees or more, and on a cold day, around 600.

But that will now change even more. I found a ceramic coating good to 5000F, so I am coating my bricks before I lay down any stainless steel. And it is an infrared heat reflector at the same time. So now I have an infrared cooker, convection oven, smoker, grill that is very large and very very efficient.

And guess what, it is using less than 1/10 of the pellets that I used before. So my cost if getting paid back in less than one year. (Probably one summer). I understand why Traeger wants you to buy more pellets, but I do not. And I want the flavor of the wood, not the gases interacting with the metal.

Also found a special ceramic coating for metal (what they use to melt metal in, over 6000F). So my burn pot is getting that coating (no heat transfer to surrounding pot area that also burns pellets and smokes them. ) All heat will be confined to just the burn pot, then transfer to the heat deflector, then to the surrounding area that is an infrared reflector. No more hot spots in the grill (Instead of +- 50 Degrees in the grill area, it is now about +- 5 degrees throughout the entire chamber. ). And the hood and all exposed metal will also be ceramic coated (their original metal). This coating prevents oxidation, rust, heat working, etc. And further, it prevents the gases from the burn interacting with the metal (this is a big thing when trying to melt metal and prevent contamination.

And with my new invention, I can smoke at any temperature as much as I want, or as little as I want. I can smoke heavily at 600 degrees ( I am hoping 800 degrees now) or no smoke and can smoke at 80 degrees, or no smoke.

My big egg smoker is also going to get a ceramic coating also inside of it. The main reason is the infrared reflection and the protection of their refractory bowl. This seems to drop heat by about 3000 degrees from 5000 to less than 2000, so using the same figures, it should drop the heat on the bowl from 500 to 200 degrees or less. Big thing for thermal shock.

See, I am an engineer, physicist, and scientist with over 20 patents to my name in a few different fields. So why would I not want to do this? And for less than $500 I have turned my Traeger grill that I was not satisfied with into a super cooker that I am more than pleased with. If I designed from the beginning I would make many more changes, like have pellets drop into burning chamber (so there is no burnback), emptying burn chamber from below, all stainless steel inside with double wall chamber, etc. But then, I want the absolute best.

I do have a tremendous recipe for kielbasa sausage and peppers that I will try and post in the recipe area if anyone is interested.